{part one: scenes and characters}
Book 6 begins with Athena going into Princess Nausicaa's dream. In the dream, Athena is disguised as the princess' friend, and she convinces her to go to the river the next day to wash her clothes so that she will look more presentable to the men who are courting her. Athena tells Nausicaa, "You won't stay unwed long. The noblest men in the country court you now, all Phaeacians just like you, Phaeacia-born and raised" (169). Athena's reasoning behind influencing the princess to go down to the river was because she needed someone to find Odysseus, who had just recently washed up on the shore of Phaeacia. At first I was confused as to why, of all the people in Phaeacia, Athena would pick the princess to discover Odysseus. She could have easily gone to some townsman, appeared in his dream, and sent him to the river bank. But then i realized, Athena wanted someone who could give the castaway king the luxury he deserved. If Odysseus were to get help from the princess, then he would get the better accommodations than if he were found/helped by an ordinary townsman. So, the next day Nausicaa is with her hand-maids when she finds Odysseus. Her first instinct is to run away from the strange (naked) man. But, something keeps her from running. It was Athena who made her courageous enough to stay and hear Odysseus out. In this scene, we the readers really see the toll the actions of the gods has taken on this man. He survived years of war, and when he finally is able to go home to his loved ones, he is not able to because of an angry god. He lost his entire crew and was kept against his will on an island for another couple of years. So, when he came upon the young princess, the only thing he wishes for is, "compassion- princess, please!" (174). Of course the princess helps Odysseus, for she sees that he is deserving of whatever kindness she can offer him.
<guiding question one> When the princess agrees to help Odysseus, she says to him, "it's Olympian Zeus himself who hands our fortunes out, to each of us in turn, to the good and bad, however Zeus prefers... He gave you pain, it seems. You simply have to bear it" (174). This quote made me think about what Odysseus thinks of the gods, because apparently the Greeks are aware and accepting of the fact that these are not loving gods. It seems that everyone in Ancient Greece believed in the gods and were always wary of doing anything that would disrespect them, but what about Odysseus? He has endured trial after trial from the gods, so why would he care about respecting them? Do you think that, when Odysseus finally makes it back to Ithaca, he will continue to have unwavering faith in the gods? Or, will he be too badly scarred by what they did to him and turn away from them completely?
{part two: illuminate the text}
LITERARY DEVICES:
Imagery: When Odysseus is left alone to bathe and get dressed, it is described that Athena uses her powers to make him look more appealing to the young girls' eyes. Athena made the king appear taller than he previously was, made him look more muscular, made his hair look thick and healthy, and finally, she "lavished splendor" on him. I'm not sure what splendor is exactly, but from the text I can guess that is it sort of this god-like glow. When the girls saw him after his transformation, Nausicaa said, "at first he seemed appalling, i must say- now he seems like a god who rules the skies up there! Ah, if only a man like that were called my husband, lived right here, pleased to stay forever..." (176).
Irony: I might be looking too far into this, but I thought it was a little bit ironic when Princess Nausicaa left Odysseus in the grove while she went into town. I thought this because, here is Odysseus who was an exile being help captive by Calypso. While he was with the goddess, he was virtually alone. But, he was able to seek freedom, and the first people who come to help him have to hide him from the town, making him an exile once again. I know that they are just doing this because it would be easier on everyone to escape the questions from the townspeople, but it did seem a little ironic to me that they had to keep Odysseus a secret.
TRANSLATOR NOTES:
Due to the fact that book six is relatively short when compared to the other books we have already read, there was not a lot in the translator's notes section. But, one thing did stick out to me. When Odysseus said, "Should he fling his arms around her knees, the young beauty, plead for help" (173) I was a little confused. Why would he want to throw his arms around her knees? According to the translator's notes, though, this was the position of the suppliant (beggar, beseecher). This gesture was supposed to convey the helplessness and dependence of the person kneeling on the ground. So, when Odysseus considered doing this, it was because he wanted to show the princess that he was in desperate need of help and that he could not do anything without her assistance.
EPIC MACHINERY:
epithets: Princess Nausicaa's hand maids are referred to frequently as "girls with lovely braids", which made me think of the previous book. In book five, the goddess Calypso was always described as having lovely braids. So, maybe because the girls are now being defined the same way, it is supposed to convey that the girls are so pretty, they can be compared to gods. Another thing I noticed about epithets in this book was a change in how a new morning was described. It was previously described (many times) as, "When young Dawn with her rose-red fingers shone once more", but in this book it said, "Dawn soon rose on her splendid throne" (170). A change in how something is being described (something that has been described the same way for most of the book) could mean a significant change in events. Maybe the change was supposed to show Odysseus' change in luck because he was found later that day.
<guiding question two> Why do you think it was necessary that Athena alter Odysseus' appearance so that he seemed more attractive to the girls? Was to help him advance in his journey in anyway by alter perceptions of him? Or was it just because Athena thought he deserved to look like himself when meeting the royal family of Phaeacia, especially after all he had been through?
{part three: making connections}
THEMES: The themes of book 6 are generosity and trust. When Odysseus stumbled upon the girls, he thought for sure he would scare them away. For he was a large, battered man covered in brine from the sea and completely naked. He would have scared all of them away if it were not for some help from Athena. The maids all scattered from the sight of him, but Nausicaa had god-given strength, so she stayed and heard his story. She showed a great amount of trust when she decided to help him. For all she knew, he could have been a crazy person who made up the whole story to get closer to her. She also showed generosity when she said, "seeing you've reached our city and our land, you'll never lack for clothing or any other gift" (174).
CONNECTIONS: One thing I thought of when thinking of the themes of generosity and trust was the movie The Blind Side. It is based on a true story and it is about when a wealthy family takes in an underprivileged kid. They give him a place to stay without ever really knowing anything about him. It works out for the best because, in the end, the parents adopt him and he becomes an official part of the family.
<guiding question> If you were to come up on a person who, like Odysseus, looked like they were in some trouble and could use help, what would you do? Would you run away because they might be a threat? Would you offer your house as a place to stay? Or, would you find some middle ground?
I think Odysseus has to respect the Gods, he has no other choice but to believe in them. He is only a king—he doesn’t have equal rights like the Gods. I don’t think Zeus gave/put him in “pain”, but there are obstacles Odysseus needs to go through to prove himself and anyone else that he can encounter anything blocking him from solving a problem. I think he will continue respecting the gods just like everyone else because he needs to. If he went against the Gods, I am sure he will endure harder trials.
ReplyDeleteI don’t think it was necessary for Athena to enhance Odysseus appearance. Either way he would have been helped because Athena told the hand maids to do so. I mean it may help him get help from other people but he deserves to be himself either way.
I am a very nice person, but I don’t just trust anyone. If someone needed help I would call 911 or something to have someone else help whoever is in need; I can’t just let anyone stay at my house. I mean I helped just a little bit if I do call the police or some sort. And it’s not that I don’t want to help, but if I don’t know the person well enough I don’t know he/she is lying to me. Trust isn’t given, it’s earned—it’s too important.
I think that Odysseus will continue on to have faith in the Gods and keep devoting a part of it to them because if he doesn't he would suffer again and i dont think that that is in his plans for the future and what he wants to have in his life. And if he does turn away from them then who is going to pray to when things get though in his life, especially if he is going to travel again, and he knows that Athena is helping him out. So then why would he turn away from her.
ReplyDeleteAthena helped him look better because honestly if I was one of the girls I would be repulsed in how he looks and not really try to make a connection with the person and understand where he is coming from. I would still provide assistance to the person but if I am repulsed and appalled as Naussicca says she is before she sees him clean I would assume that she felt the same. Athena does it to make sure that Naussicca does her best to try to help him and get to know him so that she wont let anything bad happen to him when he reaches the palace.
As I said i would probably be scared and try ot run away because of the fight-or-flight response in our brains. But I would try to ge to know the person and I don't think that i would let them stay in my house because I dont know if that person is crazy or psychotic but i would help them find something in the middle. I would try to get them to a shelter and get them some food and clothes. As a last resort, I would let them stay in my house but I would have alot of reservations about that choice.
Maggie, Great insights. You bring a very original perspective to all the topics you comment on. I appreciate your use of quoted material, as well.
ReplyDeleteMy only concern is that it's not clear which questions you are responding to in Part One. The assignment asks you to respond to some of the Questions for Learning and Discovery on the website. Make sure to look at those before tomorrow's discussion.
1. He survived trials after trials from the gods, which means some other gods were on his side to make sure he survived. If a god, like Poseidon, decides to kill Odysseus, he could have done it since a human would not be able to win from a battle with a god. But the fact that Odysseus survived all the hardships means that other gods/goddess (such as Athena) were guiding him throughout his journey. So he should be thankful to those gods/goddesses who helped him when he gets home and serve them in thankfulness rather than out of fear.
ReplyDelete2. I think Athena altered Odysseus’ appearance so he can get more respect once he enters the palace of the king because appearances matter. If he looked like a beggar on a street, the king and his loyal friends would not offer too much gifts or care for him. But because Athena has altered his appearances to make him look good, he was able to draw attention to himself and receive the respect from the king. (I like how you pointed out this epithet; I thought how Homer describes with words like “rose-red fingers” are impressive. Also I knew this phrase came out couple of times but I didn’t notice this change)
3. I might help them by offering them some food or money but I would not offer my house as a place to stay. Also, if the person is like Odysseus, I don’t think I will go close to him since I can see that he is much stronger than me (might be threatening). You never know if that person is really nice, trustworthy, and honest or not. And I personally don’t trust people that easily, so helping someone—who I just met—by offering my house will never happen.
Guiding Question #1: Odysseus still respects the gods because not all of the gods are attempting to harm him. Poseidon is the only god that has caused Odysseus physical pain, but Odysseus cannot disrespect all of the gods because in return he would have no gods on his side. In book five, Zeus allows Odysseus to return, “…home to his native country all unharmed…” (5.30) because he is deciding his fate. But, if Odysseus did not continue to follow the path of respect to the gods, he would have no chance of getting home. I believe that when Odysseus makes it back to Ithaca, he might not have complete faith in the gods. But, even if he does not have total faith, he will still respect the gods because if he did not, he could be putting his and his family’s life in danger.
ReplyDeleteGuiding Question #2: I believe it was necessary that Athena altered Odysseus’ appearance because it made him more noticeable and appealing to the girls. By doing this, the girls paid more attention to Odysseus and they noticed his strong presence. Odysseus was “…breathtaking, yes, and the princess gazed in wonder…” (6.262-263). By making Odysseus more attractive to the girls, Athena emphasized his importance of being there. It is possible that Athena wanted Odysseus to impress the royal family of Phaeacia because making him seem more like a king could help him receive help to return home.
Guiding Question #3: If I were to come upon a person who looked as if they were in trouble and could use help, I would hope that I would try and help them. But I know for a fact that if it were a complete stranger, I would not let them stay in my house. I also would not run away from a person in dire need of help. Hopefully I would try and find a way to help the person without putting myself in danger. Even though I would try and help this person, times are different and it is rare to find an individual that would let a complete stranger stay in their house.
I definitely think that Odysseus will continue having faith in the gods. Even though they put him through so much, they also made him the hero he is today. Without them he would be nothing. I agree with Katie on that obviously Odysseus will travel again and will encounter difficult obstacles, so why would he not believe in the gods anymore when he knows that they saved his life multiple times. He should be thankful instead of ungrateful of what they have done for him. He has to look at the bigger picture and know that the gods only want the best for him. They are not trying to hurt him in anyway. If it wasn’t for the gods, he would still be trapped for many more years and would probably not return home. And if he did escape that island, then he would get killed by the other gods that hate him.
ReplyDeleteI think Athena altered Odysseus’ appearance so that the girls would respect him more because if I saw a man that was dirty and filthy, I would probably not want to help him. Also he would get more respect if he went to the palace because he’s entering an important king’s house so he would want to look good. I believe that appearance does matter a whole lot. You’re first reaction of someone is by their appearance but usually later on it goes to personality. When you meet someone you like, you obviously don’t know them on the inside but what attracts you to them is how they look on the outside.
If someone needed my help, I would probably offer them whatever they needed but I would have to get to know them first before I offer them my house as a place to stay because I would be scared if I didn’t know what their intentions are. But if I found out that the person had a good personality and was honest then I would let him stay with me until we figured out what the next step would be. We are all gods’ children’s and I feel like if someone really needs help then why not help them? Good things come to people who do good things for others but do not accept anything in return.
GQ 1 – I do not think that Odysseus will turn away from the gods, even though there have been times during his journey (like when he was trying to swim to land after Poseidon destroyed his raft) when he was distressed by what the gods had done to him. At that moment he felt like Athena had abandoned him to the will of Poseidon. I think, though, that in the long run Odysseus is able to see how much the gods have helped him, and even how much they respect him. If anything, I think his trials have showed him how important it is to respect the gods. They control so much in his life, so it’s important to treat them with respect.
ReplyDeleteGQ2 - I like your observation about dawn’s epithets. I think a noticeable change in the story like that is a good indicator of a change in tone on Homer’s part.
I don’t think that it was necessary to alter Odysseus’ appearance; I just think it was like putting the icing on the cake. I don’t even think that Athena did it to make sure that they would accept Odysseus since she could have gone into their minds and made them accept him anyway. I think she did it simply because she has some love for Odysseus, and she wanted everyone to look at him in awe like (she thought) he deserved.
GQ3 – I know if a stranger told me a story like this I would believe them, but I still do not think that I would treat them with the kindness and generosity that Nausicaa did. I think it just has to do with the way I (and everyone else in our society) have been raised, in that we always think strangers are bad people. If the stranger begged me like Odysseus begged Nausicaa, I would try to help, but I wouldn’t go to the extent that Nausicaa went to. I wish I could say I would help that much, though.
Yes Odysseus has been through a lot, but that being said, I think that he will still always be loyal and faithful to the gods, because he has to. I feel as though he has every right to just be upset with them and shun them but they could kill him. Literally. So even if it upsets him he is going to have to remain loyal to them no matter what. Also he should realize that it is only Poseidon who does not want to grant him passage home, and Athena, as well as Zeus mostly, are completely on his side.
ReplyDeleteI think that Athena altered Odysseus' appearance to give him whatever advantage she could give him to please the girls. Obviously he was battered and beaten from the war and his long voyage, and he needed any help he could get to get them to help him. The girls paid more attention to him for he looked almost godlike and it was easier for them to trust him. I feel as though if he had looked filthy he would not have gotten the same respect or treatment from the girls.
I would be relatively terrified if a man such as Odysseus was around my house. From what is described in the book, he is strong and intimidating, and could snap me like a twig. However I would feel pity in my heart and try to do what I could for him, maybe direct him to a place to stay? It's much different now to let a stranger, especially a big one, into your home.
GQ1- I think that Odysseus would be more wary of the gods, but not completely cautious of them. His experiences with Calypso and Posedion clearly affected him and how he views the gods. But, I believe that he won't be totally against the gods if he knew that Athena and Hermes and Zeus were trying to help him, either in Calypso's lair or helping Telemachus.
ReplyDeleteGQ2- I believe Athena changed Odysseus' appearance because it was vital for him to meet King Alcinous. If the princess and the other girls stumbled across some naked, dirty, and disheveled man in the forest, they would not have shown the hospitality that they did. But thanks to Athena's powers, the princess treated Odysseus as best as she could and provided for him and gave the opprotunity to present him to her father.
GQ3- I would help someone that seemed like Odysseus and was in need of a lot of help. I would do all that I could, but only to a certain point. If there was a hungry homeless man, I'd buy him a burger from BK, not treat him to a nice meal at a good restaruant or invite him to stay at my house. I believe that people are good until I am proven wrong, so I would not ignore them or run just because they could be threatening.
1. I believe Odysseus will continue to have faith in the gods because they overall have the power and control over his life to do whatever they want with him. I feel like he needs to still respect them because he knows this fact that they have full control over his outcomes in his journeys, and he realizes that he cannot fulfill his journey solely by himself. He got this far with much help from the gods, especially Athena, and without her, he would still be stuck in Calypso's cave. Odysseus will still most likely trust in the gods after he returns home because his whole homecoming will be because of the grace of the gods, and him not acknowledging that will be a disgrace toward the generosity of what the gods did for him.
ReplyDelete2. Athena made Odysseus' appearance better because she knew that if he were to look gross and filthy, that the princess would be less appealed to help him out. Athena also probably wanted Odysseus to look very manly and handsome so he his looks could entice the princess easily, than simply just looking like a normal male mortal. And generally, she probably had wanted him to impress the royal family who was going to be his next host, so that they may provide for him and help him sail home. The royal family was intrigued by his looks, and his looks were probably a large factor in contributing to their generous help.
3. If there was a man who needed help that looked like Odysseus, I would have to get to know him a little first before welcoming him into my home. I would definitely feed him and clothe him, but I do not know if I would throw a huge feast and bring everyone in town over to my house to show off what it's like in Glenview to my new guest like the royal family did. Upon first meeting this strange man, I would be very cautious about helping him because like all people you don't know, it's a risk that involves putting yourself and your family in danger if you bring him into your house.
Odysseus like many said, has no choice to believe and respect the gods. It is unfortunate for him that the one god that is angry with him controls the sea and denies Odysseus passage home. For the same reason, he also has no need to be angry with the other gods because they have done nothing and some have actually saved him. Also, even though Poseidon beats him down twenty-four-seven, he continually prays to the other gods. For example Odysseus pleads, “Hear me, daughter of Zeus whose shield is thunder—tireless one, Athena! Now hear my prayer at last, for you never heard me then, when I was shattered…” (178). Odysseus still continues to pray to Athena who did not help him for all the years he was stuck with Calypso. He did not lose faith in the gods then so I do not believe he will lose faith in the gods when he finally reaches his home.
ReplyDeleteAthena made Odysseus, “taller to all eyes, his build more massive now, and down from his brow she ran his curls like thick hyacinth clusters full of blooms” (175). Athena main reason was to change the perspective Nausicaa had of Odysseus. She first saw Odysseus as an “unlucky wanderer” (175) and after Athena’s changes she view Odysseus “like a god who rules the skies up there!” (176) Athena goal was obviously completed.
I am always fearful and second-guess a lot of my decisions to see if they were of my best interests. Some times, I wish I could go back and change them. With that said, I would probably be fearful to letting and helping out a stranger. I would not trust a person I had just met to live with me or let alone welcome in my house. On the other hand, in the contents of this book, I would be more scared of the punishment of the gods and accept the person in need with out a second guess in the back of my mind.
hey maggie! :)
ReplyDelete1) I believe that Odysseus respects the God's because even though they put him through so much its all for a reason. He's learning lots and he's gaining lots of strength through it all so it's not just to torture him. Also not all the God's are against him some of them help him through his journey as well. I believe that even through all the struggles he will still have faith and believe in the God's. I think that he have much respect for the God's even through everything that they get put through just because its a higher status and they have more power so respect them.
2) I Believe Athena altered his appearance because she didn't want him going among the kings and Gods looking all worn out and tired she wanted him to look more appealing and more like a man of power than a beggar who's lost and needs their help. But it was also to help advance his journey when someone looks better and more professional looking people usually take the person more seriously so i believe that was the point of making him look better as well.
3) If i ran into a person like Odysseus i would try and help however i can. I would buy him food and give him clothes and whatever else he needs. I would not invite him in my house though that's a little risky because you don't know the persons intentions. It's hard to trust someone that you just met so helping out in every way possible other than having him stay where I'm living.
GQ1: I think Odysseus will have a strong distrust of the gods than before the whole ordeal but he will not turn his back on them. He can't do that simply because they are the gods and if we wants anything to ever work out for him again he has to listen to them somewhat. He also wont turn his back on them because he has to know that some gods wanted him to live and so they helped him leave Calypso's island and get home.
ReplyDeleteGQ2: I don't think it was necessary to alter his appearance but she did it so the people would be quicker to accept him and help him. The people, especially the young girls, would be more trusting and wiling to help someone who looked good to them and physically appealed to them than someone who did not. Looking the way he did also helped to ensure that he would get to meet the king. It would have been much harder to do that is he looked like a dirty old man.
GQ3: I would try to help someone as much as I could if I ran into someone in Odysseus' situation. If his story seemed legitimate and I had enough stuff to spare, I would offer him a place to stay and do whatever i could to help him. I would only let him stay in my house if I wasn't going to be alone or he alone in my house at all. I like to think the very best of people and trust them but not everyone can be trusted. And If I wouldn't let them stay in my house I would find some place for him to stay. I would get a motel room or something like that. I would do it because I would like to think that if I was ever in Odysseus' place, I'd like to think someone would help me.
Although Odysseus really had a tough time because of the gods, I think he’s faith and respect wouldn’t change but it’ll be probably hard for him to trust a god again if a god tries to help him. We have to accept the fact that if it weren’t for gods, Odysseus must have been dead by now. The gods have the power over the people and disrespecting them will do no good to anyone.
ReplyDeleteAthena made him look better because he deserves it. He is a hero and a king as well. Also his looks affect the sympathy of the people around him. Some people base their decision on whether you are worth talking to or being friends with by the way you look or you dress, especially if it’s the first time you’ve met. I think Athena wants Odysseus to have a good impression on the people so that they may think that he is worth helping for.
If I find a lost person like Odysseus, I probably would help him in a way that I can. But I probably would be scared to at first but still try to help. I don’t think I could let a stranger in my house but I will still find a way to help that person.
1. I doubt that Odysseus would ever not respect the gods. He is such a great leader, and basically the hero of Ithaca, and I think he will forever value them. He has been through so much and I understand what Brandon is saying when he brings up the fact that Odysseus had to struggle after Poseidon ruined his raft. Even when he might feel discarded and abandoned at that time, he still will have faith in the gods.
ReplyDelete2. I feel like it was kind of pointless to alter Odysseus’ appearance. Even though it might have been just a little something extra, Athena did it so Odysseus would be able to get the respect he deserves. It seems like she really cares about him, so I can see why she did it. Also, the girls would be more understanding if he looked good and it evidently helped ensure that he would get to meet the king and the royal family of Phaeacia. I would probably be nervous trying to help someone I just met, so Athena wanted to do whatever she could to assist Odysseus. It just goes to show that she is there for him countless times.
1. I think you make a good point by asking why people still respect the gods after all that has been done to them. Especially Odysseus, however I would ask if you would do any differently. Would you stand up and just blatantly disrespect them? I would think no. Because people are terrified of what the immortals would do. So I believe that even Odysseus will continue to show respect towards them, because while one of them is consistently torturing him, many others are saving him. So he wants to continue to show them respect and keep himself alive.
ReplyDelete3. I would like to believe that I would help a person in need.. yet it’s hard to tell for sure. It would depend on the situation. If I were in the girls place and a naked dirty came at me on a beach I would defiantly turn and go the other way.